Friday, March 4, 2011

How I left my guild

OK. It’s Friday night and I admit I’ve had a drink or possibly two already, which means that I’m in a mood for talking and sharing, possibly more than I normally would. But sharing is a bit of the point of blogging, isn't it?

There won't be any pretence or cover-up. This is the truth, the reality the way it is, including cracks and less-than-perfect. But even if this post starts in misery, I assure you it will get much better towards the end. Don’t worry. Just have a seat and a pint and relax while I'm sharing my story, OK? And don't forget I love my guild.

Now let's get started, shall we? (Larísa fills a pint to the brim and heads for her favorite armchair, takes a sip and clears her throat before speaking up.)

What made me leave
If you’re a frequent reader of PPI you probably have noticed that things haven’t been quite as bright and rosy as usual recently. Last week I hinted about a sleepless night and hours of crying, but I refused to say what it was all about.

However I don’t think it was too hard to guess. What WoW-related issue could possibly make Larísa that sad? A wipenight? A lost loot roll? A nerf to my class? No way. Such trivial things aren’t even worth a shrug. It’s nothing. The only thing that possibly could cause me such a grief must be related to the people I play with. My guild. And of course you were damned right.

This is what happened:

Despite our struggles to fill our roster, Adrenaline has put up daring goals for Cataclysm – even raising the ambition level a bit compared to earlier. We aimed for the hardmodes and we wanted to come to those and to progress through them fairly quickly. This was announced early in the expansion, and we also were told that our performances would be followed and noted and that players who couldn’t live up to the requirements would be removed, regardless if you were an old-timer or a new recruit. Fair enough.

A month or so after this “evaluation period” had been declared, our GM gathered a bunch of players to a special meeting on vent after a raid. He wanted to have a discussion with the players who were considered to have “issues”, the players who were most likely to be removed from the guild in case we would have to give up on 25 man raiding altogether, cutting down to a 10 man guild. And yes, I was one of those players.

Not a surprise
To be honest it didn’t come as a complete surprise. I’ve shared my struggles and efforts many times here at PPI. Especially fights that required a lot of movement and multitasking have always been a challenge to me. This very day I’ve still not gotten to terms with that son-of… cough, sorry. I mean Hodir. While my survival has been quite OK, I’ve been messing around at the bottom of our damage charts ever since Cataclysm was launched. I’ve done my best, as always, but my best isn’t always good enough.

Calli at PewPewLasers seems to be in a similar position as me. As he wrote in his post of confessions a little while ago:

"The problem is, I’m 41 next month. My reflexes aren’t what they used to be, there are youngsters in our raid who act like they have the reaction times of rattlesnakes on crack and they handle fights like this with ease. Me, I need time to process things, time to let muscle memory take the slack that my reflexes can’t handle and my brain can’t process. "

This could just as well have been written by me. So when I was told that they were afraid that my learning curve was too slow and they feared I might hold us back from progression in hardmodes, it wasn’t exactly a shock to me.

Nevertheless – it sucked to hear it said openly. While most of the others that were called to this meeting had issues that were quite easy to solve – such as attendance issues – mine was far worse. With exception for Hodir, I usually learn fights like everyone else. But if the learning curve is too slow, is there really that much you can do to speed it up? If you’re already giving everything in every raid, if you’re already preparing, watching strats, adjusting to the latest advice from the theorycrafters, practicing with dummies, what more can you do? I am who I am. Larísa. And after about 300 raids it should be quite well known to my guild what I was capable of and not capable of. It wasn’t something I could fix or change within a week.

After all those years of fighting to deserve my spot in the raiding team, to be someone who contributed to the success of the raid like anyone else, it felt as if I finally had reached a roof. I had reached the limit of my potential as a player and if this wasn’t good enough with regards to where Adrenaline was aiming, I should recognize this and take the consequences.

Hesitation
No one told me to leave the guild. The idea was entirely my own - and that was the point of it: to take the initiative, to be proactive and in charge rather than just waiting for a verdict to fall.

Of course it wasn’t easy. I had raided with Adrenaline since I first stepped into Black Temple in the summer of 2008. My entire existence in Azeroth was built around raiding and around my guild and I couldn't imagine the game without it. What would I do? Where would I go? Even if I suspected that I probably could find a new home if I advertised my need for it at my blog, I wasn't sure that I even wanted a new home. After so many years, starting all over in a guild where I didn't know anyone, where I had no shared history, no sense of belonging together, felt close to impossible.

Leaving Adrenaline would mean that I would try WoW as a solo game, alt playing and pugging my way through the world. Since I never have had time to explore all the revamped content and the worgen and goblin starting areas, it probably could hold my interest for a while. But deep inside I knew that leaving my guild, most likely was the beginning of the end of my time in WoW. An era coming to an end. No wonder that I hesitated.

Sunday night I had made up my mind after rewriting my farewell post to our guild forums four times and waiting a few days, just like I had promised our GM. I spoke a final time with my closest friends in the guild, and then I got to work, removing my characters from the guild one by one. And all the time I thought about the guy who cut off his own arm when it was stuck under a rock in the desert. I hated what I was doing but I didn't see any alternative. I didn't do it to cause drama, I didn't do it to make a point or make anyone feel sorry for me. I did it partly out of a sense of pride, dignity and self respect, partly because it seemed to be the logical thing to do, the best solution not only for me, but also for my guild.

After two and a half years I was no longer a member of Adrenaline. I was alone again. Lost in the big voids of Azeroth. I didn't cry. I reckon I had already emptied my resources in that field. All I felt was this huge emptiness.

Letters and comments
Little did I expect what would follow the next few days. It turned out that my departure didn't go unnoticed. Letters were written, in- and outside of the game. Comments were written and all those efforts that were made to convince me to come back to the guild brought tears into my eyes. One guildie wrote to me: "If there are hard modes we can't do with you, then I do not want those hard modes. Do not leave, please." You would have to have a heart of stone to resist that.

Another one sent me a compass in the hope that it would help me to find my way back home. He was also rather brutal on our poor GM (who goes under the name Stumps), starting to send me stumpy feet every day, threatening to keep cutting our GM into pieces until I got back to my senses. and returned. And he wasn't the only one to take to blackmail - one of our sweetest, most peaceful members swore that he'd kill one innocent puppy every day until I came back.

Most unhappy of everyone was our GM, who regretted the turn things had taken and was determined not only to get me back into the guild, but to help me work out anything that could be missing for the hardmodes, if it so would mean that he'd had to buy an airplane ticket to Sweden. He made it clear that he'd never give up on getting me back, and he would keep pestering me until I gave in.

Who can resist so much love, coming from a family that I've spent so much time with? Well, I certainly couldn't. 48 hours after my departure I was back in the guild of my heart, back in Adrenaline, the only guild I'll ever belong to for my remaining days in WoW.

25 man struggles
So is all well again now? Sort of. I'm fine with my relation to my guild, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure for how long we will survive. Times are tough for 25 man raiding groups, as Spinksville wrote about the other day, and God knows we too have been struggling a lot over the last month, never sure if we could make the raid take off, more often than not undermanning our raids.

The other night we got a blood transfusion in form a of a whole bunch of players from a smaller guild joining us and hopefully this will take some pressure off us. After rain comes sunshine and things actually look a little brighter now then they have for a long while.

Let's not worry about the future though. All I need to know for now is that I'm back, at home, in the guild where I belong. A happy end and I've put the issues we had behind me. That's a good way to end a week, isn't it?

The toast of this week goes to my GM Stumps. For all the pain the last couple of weeks have brought us both, I think we've learned and ended up a little bit wiser. And we've still got some great adventures ahead of us, I'm certain of that now.

As you said when we talked about it on vent - this book hasn't come to its end yet, and I still have a part in it to play. You haven't given up about my learning curve, so why should I?

This one is for you and and actually for all other guild leaders out there, struggling with the fine balance of pushing their guilds up and beyond while maintaining the atmosphere and level of happiness. It's a damned hard balance act you're doing and there's no wonder if things go wrong once in a while. The crucial question is if you have the ability to recognize when it happens and make something about it.

Cheers!

(Larísa raises her jug and let's her eyes sweep around the room, smiling and nodding to all theose friendly and familiar faces.)

But look over there! Our musicians for this evening have arrived! So let's put those past events behind us and sing and dance and enjoy ourselves until the night ends. Dark shadows may lure around the corner, but tonight I assure you we're out of their reach.

79 comments:

spinksville said...

*HUG*

Clovis said...

This post made me a little sad, even if everything ended well. I'm glad you're back in Adrenaline. Who wouldn't want Larisa in their guild?

Can I have a hug? I really need one today.

Anyways enjoy your pint :)

Andrei said...

Larisa you should seriously consider writing a book about your life and adventures in Azeroth! It will be bestseller I have no slightest doubt about it.

Vanessa Kersjes said...

*sigh* I just don't understand guilds that would not just want people around who are there to have fun. No need for raiding.

My guild has 2 regular 10mans running, each consisting of more than 10 people.

We run 2 10mans because we have such different time schedules that it is impossible to run one 25.

But we also have members who just level alts, who level trade skills, who pvp mostly, or who don't level at all and just come by for a chat.

Why, why, why if the people in your guilds are soooo important, do you prefer to leave the guild when you cannot raid over just hanging out with your friends without raiding?

I totally understand the hurt you must've gone through, but that a guild would only accept people so they can raid (often even without looking at the personality, and only at the skill)...I guess I'll never understand.

Justisraiser said...

Larisa,

I'm sure that must not have been easy for you to share, let alone go through.

I'm really glad your guild leaders 'came to their senses,' so to speak, because I've witnessed first-hand very similar situations to yours. A loyal and active member of the guild effectively gets benched because they don't meet some sort of DPS standard. Unless you're in Paragon, this is almost always the wrong choice. For whatever you may make up with replacing them with someone with slightly higher DPS, you lose in terms of morale and chemistry.

Bri said...

I'm so glad it worked out for you Larisa. And I was concerned and wondering -- like many of your readers I'm certain -- what had upset you and if it had been resolved.

It sounds like there's a few players in Adrenaline in the same boat. If you don't mind me suggesting it, and you still want to raid, perhaps start a B-team, that's not so progression oriented?

/hug

Stubborn said...

Larisa,

I'm very sorry to hear about your guild situation, patched-up for the moment or not. It's sad to see good people be left by the wayside in pursuit of progress.

I, too, have had my share of bad guild breakups/makeups, but I'll refrain from making this about me (for once - and as a Blogger that's so hard to do!) and just suffice to say that while I'm glad things with your guild are fixed, if you ever need a home in the future, I'm sure you could find one on Burning Blade (might not be great since I think you're in Europe, though).

My condolences,
Stubborn

Issy said...

I'm really glad the tale had a happy ending :)

Anonymous said...

I also recently left my guild due to raid issues. It really takes a toll on you, and it really does feel like you are cutting a bodily part off, as you so eloquently stated. At the end of the day, we play this game for fun. For some, that means raids and hardmodes. For others, its about hanging out with friends and enjoying content at a pleasurable pace. Nothing wrong with either, as long as you are having fun. Happy to hear that you can still enjoy the game and be happy. Cheers!

Redbeard said...

A round of drinks for everyone! I think that between my three toons I've got enough gold to cover a round.

Good to see that there was a resolution, even if it wasn't a perfect one.

Utakata said...

Larísa wrote inpart:

"This was announced early in the expansion, and we also were told that our performances would be followed and noted and that players who couldn’t live up to the requirements would be removed, regardless if you were an old-timer or a new recruit. Fair enough."

I think that was pretty fascistic and power tripping of your GM to do that. And I would of immediately walked from the guild if my GM did that. Even he/she was offering to pay each player 500g/hour for the time spent in any raid instance he was running, regardless of how good I was. Because turning your game into a day job is not my idea of fun. Nor should it be anyones.

That being said, it does hearten me to see that your GM is see'ing wisely of his errors. And appears to making some pretty progressive and proactive intiatives by having you back and working with smaller guilds. Perhaps your leaving was a cricket/baseball bat over his head, thus knocking in some needed sense...

...either way though, kudos to you! :)

Anonymous said...

Good to see you back in Adrenaline mate....i would of hated having to log in Cacknoob and "convince" your GM in a kindly non-aggressive manner to "re-evalute" his position.....


Cacknoob

The PPI enforcer

Rem said...

"If there are hard modes we can't do with you, then I do not want those hard modes."

I think this is pretty much the quintessence of "doing it right". It's the conclusion I arrived at a long time ago: what does it really matter, in the end, whether you kill the hardest boss in the hardest mode? Nothing. It's just an entry in a database that flips from 0 to 1. If the road there has not been worth walking, the difference is moot. Heart matters. It's not all that matters, but matter it does.

Doug said...

And this is what Blizzard has allowed their devs to turn WoW into.

I hate it so much if I could beat up the devs that caused you to cry I would.

:)

Tesh said...

From what I can tell of Stumps over at Raging Monkeys, he's not a bad sort at all. Speaking from the peanut gallery, is it too much to ask you guys to cut him some slack? As evidenced here, he does care about our favorite barkeep, and in the end, that's more important than the raids.

Guild leaders who want to raid seriously have to walk a line between optimization and human resources. That's just the way of things. Seems to me that this story ends on the right note; that people are the point of playing in a guild.

I see no reason to complain. Cheers to the Adrenaline crew for holding onto Larisa!

P.S. Larisa, I suspect you'll always have an open stool in BBB's event guilds (that's where I spend my time), or any of a dozen other fellow bloggers' guilds. We're not all Adrenaline junkies (not meant derogatorily), but hey, we're a friendly bunch.

Silvershaft said...

Larissa, I'm astonished at what you've gone through and I'd like to express my sympathy :)If the personality you're showing on your blog reflects your personality in-game then I'm not at all surprised that you had such a great impact in your guild.

I'm really glad you got through this affair. I personally have a very strict raiding schedule (and I mean to the half-hour) and so there are very few guilds which suit my needs in that area. As a result whenever a guild disbands I often have to change server or faction, and so I've sort of grown accustomed to changing guilds every 3-6 months. In my old guild the two guild leaders were hospitalized, for example. Anyway, I'm glad that you felt so strongly for the members in your guild, and that they returned the favor!

Rhii said...

Wow, I can see how the last week or so has been hard on you. I had kind of a mixed reaction reading this - I understand why you might not be willing to stay with a guild you're not raiding with, you've very obviously made raiding a high priority for a long time now, but I also can imagine how hard it would be to leave a guild you've been part of for so long. But then staying requires the guild to change their performance expectations for you, which would be hard too. It's a tough call all around, I guess.

Not that I don't think it's an utter exaggeration to jump from "progress-oriented" to "fascism" (I am rolling my eyes at that logical leap) but one of the things that I have always admired about you, Larisa, is how well you've been able to mix playing like a newbie -- and by that I mean, keeping a newcomer's sense of wonder in the game -- with competitive and serious raiding, which requires some kind of performance standard to maintain. I'm really sad that it came to a point where you felt like you'd hit a ceiling. I know everyone must have them, but being reminded of it is bruising at best.

Well I'm rambling, what I mean to say is that I'm glad the story has a happy ending, I hope the reunion continues to be as smooth as it has been so far.

Syl said...

@Utakata

I'm not sure if you were really aware of how misplaced the word 'fascist' was in such a context, but almost every raidguild has very clear rules and conditions players need to meet in order to keep a spot. it's entirely in a guild's right to maintain its goals and evaluate and hold its players to it. guilds are common ventures and if you dislike that, you have every right to leave. calling a system fascist that you yourself agreed to upon joining is more than a little problematic in my opinion and I would not only take offense on Stumps behalf, but also on my own as co-founder of Adrenaline to hear the guild being compared to anything remotely close to fascism.

At least Tesh pointed out what some people ignore as soon as it concerns their "friends" - that raidguilds are a deal and need to tread a very fine line between progression and guild harmony. 'just focus on the people' - is a little easier said than done: if you've actually ever been a guildleader of a semi-serious raidguild, you know that such a guild consists of several groups of people and just like you have slower raiders, you have faster ones. so which ones should you focus on? the fast learner or the slower ones? should you risk losing the more progress-oriented raiders over being too casual, or do you risk your slower but maybe friendly folk? and where do you draw the line - or is it simply about favoritism? i've seen good raiders and friends leave guilds in the past that never dared to live up to their initial 'concept' - what about them then? do they not matter?

that's a dilemma and there's no simple answer to it. it's a little smug to judge others on making the wrong choice when really every choice has downsides and consequences.

and if anyone has a reason to call wow a job it's actually the leaders who have to deal with all these issues - not just the GM but his co-leaders as well. Larísa has chosen to name Stumps, and I think in general people like to forget that a guild is carried by an officers team and never just the GM alone. The GM takes the other opinions into account when he does something, which means it's not just something he decided on his own but several people agreed to...or at least that's how it should be.

Neverender said...

Much like Vanessa Kersjes said, I'll never understand guilds that push progression at the expense of fun (and fun people). I raid with my close friends; we've been tight for a long time. I'd rather fail with them as their raid leader than succeed with a bunch of jerks.

To be honest, we've not cleared a single boss in Cata yet (we started raiding last week, and as raid leader, I'm taking them Throne of the Four Winds first ... yes, I'm evil!). But I'd rather be with them than anyone else, sweet loots or no.

Congrats on finding your way back home, Larisa!

Stubborn said...

@Syl
I just want to second your point about how hard it is to make these kind of administrative decisions, and I feel like we all should focus on what I think Larisa's point was: that were was some drama, but it's mostly resolved, and she feels like a lot of people played very positive roles (the GM included) in ensuring her return to the guild.

I know one of the worst parts of my job as raid leader was deciding who could and could not go, and I had to ask many friends and guildmates to sit out. It comes with the job, unfortunately, that unpopular and sometimes unfriendly decisions have to be made.

Of course, if I grossly misread her post, I'm sure I'll be quickly corrected.

Ratshag said...

/hug teh gnome

I done went through a similar experience in the early days of Wrath. Without anybody sayin' so, me guild had become more hardcore, with more ambitified goals, and I couldn't keep up. In the end, it were clear I weren't fittin' in no more, so I left. It sucked. I's glad yer tale be turnin' out better, and I hopes it done continue that way.

Clovis said...

I swear I posted a comment earlier today.. and now I can't see it. I don't imagine you deleted it because.. well why would you o0

Anyways I just said your post made me a little sad, even if things turned out well in the end. Who wouldn't want a Larisa in their guild? I wouldn't g-kick somebody like you regardless of performance.

I wouldn't mind a pint myself, either.

Eccentrica said...

Three cheers for our favourite Innkeeper, and for Adrenaline. May you all continue to fight the good fight together for many years to come.

Kialesse said...

/buys Larisa a pint

I've been a bit worried about you with the unnatural murk of gloom that has been hanging over the PPI the last couple weeks, so I'm glad that you told us what was going on!

I have not had the pleasure (yet) of being in a raiding guild where people actually knew who I was, but even leaving the guild where I was mostly anonymous was still difficult. I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be to try to say goodbye to a home you are so invested in. I'm glad it worked out for you, and I hope that you and the guild can move on quickly. And that there are no more innocent puppies being slaughtered on your behalf :)

Here's to you, Larisa! May your renewed guild relationship prosper! /toasts

Eric said...

Well, it sounds like your guild encountered the choice between raiding with friends and raiding to clear content, and chose the former approach. I don't think either choice is right, but it's a little unfortunate that the guild already announced that it would take the latter approach. How do you think that the people who were happy to hear that announcement feel, or the people who relied on that announcement in making their own guild choice?

Stumps said...

Re: Utakata "I think that was pretty fascistic and power tripping of your GM to do that. And I would of immediately walked from the guild if my GM did that. Even he/she was offering to pay each player 500g/hour for the time spent in any raid instance he was running, regardless of how good I was. Because turning your game into a day job is not my idea of fun. Nor should it be anyones."

Anyone comparing what we did to Fascism is a very dangerous person. To take such an extreme leap from what Larisa actually wrote to "fascistic and power-tripping" is just plain wrong and ignorance of that magnitude in the hands of the wrong person can be devastating. Feel free to run a raiding guild for 3 years, especially in the current climate, and then I'll be all ears to see whether you still use such emotive and harsh terms!

We have rules and guidelines that we have to follow, we have the aspirations and goals of 35-odd people to consider and weigh up and if you want to be talking about "not turning it into a day-job", I suggest you canvas some guild leaders and officers and find out about the time they put into the game before you do.
None of the past month has been easy for anyone and I certainly made some mistakes in my approach. Equally I spent hours talking to huge amounts of people, trying to resolve problems and find new recruits that simply aren't around. Somehow I managed, with the help of my officers team and guildmates to find solutions to some really big issues. This is not a case of "woe is the GM who puts in hours and goes unrecognised", it's merely a statement to contradict a short-sighted opinion. I do what I do out of choice and enjoyment in the overall balance of things.

I'm made up that Larisa is back with us and I certainly didn't want ANYONE to leave, but equally we set boundaries for lots of things and we have to be consequent or the setup we have crumbles to the ground.

To sum up....your comment was both ignorant and offensive!

Lady Erinia said...

Oh, Larisa, I have to agree with previous comments. You seem like such a wonderful person and I would have been astounded if you had not received such heartfelt letters from people wanting you back.

At Stumps....being a guild leader is tough and you have my absolute sympathy. You do what is best for your guild, no more, no less.

larisa, that is what you tried to do as well.

Making any decision to leave your guild, especially a guild you have been part of for years is tough.

*hugs* I'm so glad things worked out in the end.

Jasyla said...

The first part of this post made me so sad, but I'm happy there was a happy ending.

Cheers, Larísa!

Larísa said...

@Vanessa Kersjes: Our guild is a raiding guild, not a social guild. And as opposed to you I'm not so sure I think hybrids are a good idea. It easily causes a lot of tension and frustration to try to be both at the same time. This said: we have a couple of retired raiders who have been offered to stay in the guild, as a gesture of honor. I suspect that I could have gotten such a place myself if I had wanted to, but it wasn't an option. Seeing the rest of the guild raiding, while I couldn't, would be more painful than fun.

@Bri: We're into 25 man raiding and we have our hands full to get that team together. Having a second team is out of the question, and besides, who would like to belong to a B-team? I certainly wouldn't.

@Utakata: I'm shocked how you can call my GM fascistic and power tripping and if my post in any way got you to think that, I'm devastated. Again: leading a progression guild through ups and downs is an incredibly difficult balance act and he's doing it just splendidly. In this particular case I can see where he was coming from and why issues were addressed the way they were. The thing was that there wasn't any "right" way to deal with this. Because regardless of how he did, where he turned, there would always be one interest that would have to stand back.

My intention with this post was not to call out my guild in any way. I wrote it because I wanted to clean the air and because in the end it turned out well and because I think that this kind of situations aren't altogether unusual, even though they're rarely spoken about because if you're the one who is considered a problem, it's kind of... embarrassing. Not something you'd like to speak about. By sharing my experiences I thought that perhaps it could lead to some kind of discussion about what you possibly could do when all alternatives kind of sucks from some point of view.

I love and respect my GM Stumps to pieces and I hope that's clear by my post. If not, I have failed completely.

@Tesh: I'm pretty sure I could find another home if I really wanted to, but as I wrote, I don't think that ever will happen. When my time in Adrenaline ends one day, it will be the beginning of the end of my WoW playing.

Kayeri said...

I must admit, such a strict regimen surprises me, given how you've spoken of your guild in the times I've read your posts, Larisa (although I will readily admit I am a casual occasional reader, not a devoted follower). While I certainly realize that there are guilds where performance is everything, it just never jived with how I read your WoW experiences.

I hope this makes people realize that your guild is more than just the progression and perhaps re-assess things a bit. There are things more important in life than downing hard modes and the personal bonds we build within our guild are most definitely on that list.

If there are others in the same boat with the same deep roots you have, perhaps a 'raider emeritus' rank could be considered, or a secondary team with less lofty goals (perhaps a 10?) that would allow you to continue to enjoy raiding and the home you so obviously love. In any case, I hope this comes to a conclusion that leaves you right where you are and that you and your guildmates continue to be happy there.

Anonymous said...

This is why I'm so sad and frustrated with the game right now. I'm in a small, mature 10 that takes the 10 people who show up on raid night, and it doesn't work very well in the Cata model.

{{{hugs}}} to you.

Amy

Imakulata said...

I'm glad to hear that problems you had with your guild are solved. YMMV but in my experience there are people who might not be as good as others but can boost others' morale and make them happy just by being there. Unless your blog behavior is just a mask, I guess you are one of the latter so don't worry about being a slow learner. It might be the one who tops the DPS meter who is easier to replace and contributes less even if you don't realize it.

The GL deserved the appreciation as well, I think he handled everything very well and in a selfless way. Your guild is lucky to have him, really.

Some of your other guildies, on the other hand... I really hope it was an internal joke and you just forgot to mention it. Sometimes, the internal jokes can be really sick like this one is. Actually, most of the time it's "we insult X in the worst ways we can imagine but everyone knows we don't mean it". I'm quite surprised that s/he knew about this for a long time - I remember an old post of yours saying the GL told you he will be doing it - but s/he did nothing for the whole time, apparently hoping the GL will pull a magic trick or something.

I am having trouble finding a point of view which can make this player's behavior seem positive but there might be something about her/him that makes her/him a valuable member of the guild... (I shouldn't judge anyone based on a thing they did once without even knowing the context but I can't help myself.)

Bristal said...

I just can't tell you how much I enjoy these insightful and honest posts you write. You are just such a cool human being. Your family and friends are blessed to have you.

Larísa said...

@Imakulata: I don't understand what you're referring to. The stumpy feet? It was all in jest and I don't think anyone took offense, honestly.

Imakulata said...

@Larísa: Yes, the whole "cutting the GM to pieces" thing...

Larísa said...

I actually found that rather funny... but then it's a guildie we've been raiding with for years. It's just some morbide humour involved.

Stumps said...

I might be a fascistic ogre but even I can see the amusing side of sending "Stumpy feet" around - I receive them.....often!

Syl said...

You deserve them, too.

Shintar said...

Oh dear, what a heart-wrenching story. I'm glad that it had a happy ending, even if the future of your raiding adventures is still somewhat up in the air.

I've been in the same guild for nearly four years and I've seen for myself how hard it is to maintain a balance of performance and progression that makes everyone happy. I saw people fall by the wayside because they weren't good enough, I saw others leave because we weren't good enough for them, I saw endless arguments about what we should and shouldn't do and how. It's one of those things that's just painful, and yet hard to avoid in a raiding environment that experiences a constant amount of flux. I haven't been a "victim" of the phenomenon myself, but I've lost quite a few friends due to it.

After the guild nearly fell apart last summer we've strongly fallen into more casual territory, and now I'm wondering whether we aren't due for another push for "demanding better performance" again soon.

Utakata said...

@ Larísa.

I hope you do realise despite my harsh observations, I have also admonsihed your GM's move away from that. And glad it's all been worked out so I presume. Where as guilds from people I know who have gotten like that had disaterous break-ups. With some of it's members never recovering. You guys have obviously faired better. And doing something positive. I am at least happy for that.

I also want to point out that my observation was based on the GM's actions, I in no way claimed he was a fascist and power tripper himself. So this was not an ad hominem by any means, but a strongly worded disagreement over what he was doing. I am sure he's a nice person. Doesn't mean I have to agree or like what he was doing.

I understand that leading guild even a progression guild can be difficult. Someone decribed it to me it's like hearding cats. But I don't excuse those who threaten player with *punishment of guild kicking (outside of that player being abusive) if all things aren't going well regarding progession. Remember it's just a game. We're here to have fun.

*Note: This is how I was reading the incident.

And finally, sorry for strong wording. But do encourage to rewarding players instead...since ultimately I think that's the great motivator. It creates far less drama at best. And no heated vitriolic observations from this pigtailed Gnome posting on you blog. Just saying. :)

@ Syl.

Your arguement may hold true if I joined such a guild that I am fully aware of the ruleset and agreed to it. But this seemed to be a policy change...which members may not agreed to or fully understand. Thus all bets off, IMO.

But you are correct in stating I can leave anytime if I don't agree. And as I said, I would of left right away.

@ Stumps.

No, I am actually quite harmless. You can ask my friends.

Stabs said...

/hug

I think sometimes as a guild leader one needs to realise that you have to dance with the one you brung.

Best of luck with the hard modes. Once you've seen the fights several times I'm sure you'll make them wonder how they could even consider you wouldn't rock the joint.

Runzwithfire said...

*picks up one of Stumpy's feet and places it in the bin*

Another rowdy Friday night then I see. I also enjoy popping in for my lunch on the morning after the night before :P

*carefully shoves a bruised and battered patron out of HIS chair and settles in*

I shouldn't be overly concerned Larísa my dear. My reflexes aren't what they should be and I do fall very much into the 'think about and respond appropriately' than the quick fingered button mashing of younger types that can put me to shame (hell, I still type using the traditional two circling eagles method).

But as I mentioned over at Pew Pew Lazerz this very morning, it doesn't mean you're a detriment to the raid team. You have a job to do, as assigned by the Raid Leader, and I'm sure you fulfil that job admirably - whether that's killing adds, stopping orbs from touching the floor, kiting or just not standing in the bad. These are all important jobs that NEED to be done to ensure overall success. Your learning curve might be slower than some but you're probably held up as the pinnacle of reliability. I suspect that this was one of the reasons there was very genuine dismay at your departure - that and your obvious warmth, charisma and honest candour.

*tucks into his ham and English mustard sandwich*

Kudos to Stumps btw - I honestly don't think he anticipated that you might quit and I suspect the intention of the chat in vent was to lay an open forum to help discuss issues to improve overall performance.

*Lifts Stump's unconscious head to address it "sorry for second guessing you here Stumpy old boy"*

But Stumps did the right thing by highlighting what he thought might be an issue so that it could be worked on. I also think that his urgent action to get you to return to the guild also demonstrates that he his a clear and right minded guild leader. There is obvious recognition for what you do, how you do it and the effort you put in.

Don't be too hard on yourself Larísa (an all too easy trap to fall into when you're passionate about what you do). And commentators, don't be too hard on Stumps - I believe he acted admirable and in the correct manner throughout. Besides, both Stumps and Larísa have sorted it all out so it's all done and done anyhow.

*finishes sandwich, wipes away the crumbs and fishes about for his cigarettes*

Now Larísa, about the bill... do you accept shrunken heads?

Sirow said...

Offtopic:
One good advice I have when it comes to struggling with doing damage vs staying alive in movement heavy encounters (well actually this applies to a more wider range of situations) is an addon called WeakAuras (which is kind of like PowerAuras but better).

So, how this may help me you ask? :)
Well you said, surviving isn't much of a problem most of the time. Thats good, because I think there isn't much an addon could do for you. (hey a rhyme) :D
Now, how can WA (found on curse.com btw) help?

Let me start with an anecdote (Wall Of Text Alert). There was once a boy (well actually a good looking man! :P) that never ever played a twink in his whole live. Then one day that same boy went on a journey of huge exitment when he created his first ever twink, which was about to become the strongest bear tank there ever was...
But the boy never played a melee before, let alone a tank and so he not only struggled with his close-combat movement skills but also his vital tanking rotaions. It was then, that the boy discovered WeakAuras.
It took the boy quite some time to setup WA to show home notes for all his cooldowns and other important spells and notes. But when he was finished he saw that it was good. (Well actually his first setup was bad, but anyway...)

So, whats WA about? Let me quote:
WeakAuras is a powerful and flexible framework that allows you to display highly customizable graphics on your screen to indicate buffs, debuffs, and a whole host of similar types of information...

I personally use it to remind me of my rotation, my cooldowns. You can use timers, bars, textures that animate and so much more.
Eg. I've three textures that show my Lacerate stacks, one that notes me about having a free-cast. Berserk procs, tank CDs...

Sirow said...

Sorry, double post, forgot something!

So why is WA really usefull? Because when you create a "display" in WA (eg. texture, bar, timer) you can easily align those in the center of the screen (where those important thinks are notices best) whithout obscuring your view, since you can make displays "see through" bt still noticeable.
That's what I love so much about it. (And that is highly configureable and was programed whith performance in mind [unless PowerAuras original])

Llyrra said...

"If there are hard modes we can't do with you, then I do not want those hard modes."

Like so many other events in life, I often find that all the wonderful things accomplished are accomplished with wonderful people at your side doing it with you. All of our great guild moments (boss kills, achievements both heroic and otherwise, get togethers, etc.) mean so much more because of the guildies we do it with. I've been in my guild for nearly three years and I wouldn't want to do any of those things with anyone else.

[[[hugs]]]

Silvershaft said...

There was a sarcastic post by Tobold on his blog around a month ago entitled "WoW in 2020", stating how Blizzard would slowly but surely eliminate all multi-player aspects of WoW and enable the player to run through all content by himself with other NPC bots to aid him. This idea was also mentioned in Gevlon's blog.

There was a comment on Tobold's blog which stated that:
"People do raids, not because they share a common larger goal, but because they need those other players to help them reach their own individual selfish goals."

While on certain occasions I agree with this, your situation demonstrates that among many semi-hardcore guilds it is more important to raid in an enjoyable environment with people you trust, admire, respect and (how corny) love. I'd much rather (as you certainly would) raid in a comfortable, yet focused atmosphere with people I'm familiar with than a group of members who, although perhaps obtaining more boss-kills, emanate a strict, draining aura. This is also why I hardly ever raided with Pugs unless it was the weekly raid or VoA (I haven't played since WotLK due to school) due to the spontaneous reactions due to the slightest wipes.

Stories like yours emphasize that a positive environment is essential in raiding, and I'm really glad that you were able to reconcile with your guild. As people have said, your future is obviously not certain, but I'm sure that now you'll feel much more assured than if you were wandering alone in the vast plains of Azeroth!

tonyp51 said...

The fact that you were put into this position to begin with is an example of one of WoW's greatest failings.

As it stands now, the game is designed to encourage elitism, not community. At the high end, the current game is simply too hard for the average player.

Very bad game design if their intention is to foster community and retain subscribers, but then they make the gameplay too hard for those subscribers to succeed and the community to remain cohesive.

The gimmicky encounters, coupled with overly complicated rotations, coupled with excessive randomness, is a too much. And with hardmodes being the only available progression path right now at the high end, it is a recipe for disaster.

It's not your fault.

My condolences.

Anonymous said...

So did any of the other underperforming players get such special treatment? Or were they all male?

A coincidence, I'm sure.

Boleuge said...

@ Anonymous What special treatment are you talking about? A group of players were warned that IF Adrenaline became a 10 man raiding guild rather than a 25 man raiding guild they were the ones who would be cut (with individual reasons given). No player was actually kicked. Yes I was one of those warned that I would be kicked, yes it upset me.

I was more upset to see Larisa go though and even happier to see her back. No-one was actually kicked from the guild so there was no preferential treatment regardless of sex.

Tefari said...

@ Boleuge and everyone else tempted to, don't feed the troll.

Copra said...

I just don't get it. Guild wide decision is made, people don't fill the requirement, crying/moaning/drama ensues and guild backs off.

Goes to show how much the guild management really knew about the max abilities of the whole.

Also Larísa, you have no right to talk about the "typical", "casual" or guildless players in the game after I've read this touching story.

You.Have.No.Idea. of that life.

Boo-hoo. I'm off. For good.

Or until I feel like playing with you.

Which ever comes first.

C out

Larísa said...

@Copra: I get as much as you find my post offensive in some aspect. But I have no idea in what aspect to be honest. I think I'll write you an e-mail and sort it out. Your comment is puzzling to me.

Silvershaft said...

@Cobra

I see your point. The guild stated a clear policy that you needed to reach a certain criteria in order to raid competitively with the guild. Larisa didn't meet the criteria and she left, only to be persuaded back into the guild. You are angry of the indecisiveness of the leaders and the lack of commitment they had with their policy.

However, no-one told her to leave the guild entirely. (As far as I know, at least) she could still regularly participate in 25-man raids the guild were attempting, just not in future 10-mans (except in a secondary team, but I'd loathe that as well! :p). She did not have to leave the guild now, she was just being informed that she'd be removed if the roster problems continued. Therefore when she left it obviously sent a shockwave through the guild, especially as she'd been a part of it for a long time. In the future your criticism may come true, but I always think that it's better to help someone who's struggling rather than simply kicking them, especially if she's contributed to your success for such a long period of time.

Copra said...

@Silvershaft:

Exactly. I agree completely that it's better to guide, mentor and help if someone is struggling instead of kicking. In this case the decision to leave was Larísa's own, and only her decision. She was not kicked, she left, no matter what the explanation was. Instead of waiting for the 'verdict' she made her own decision which was contrary to the majority of the guild members.

Its truly heartwarming to notice that there are so strong friendships in some guilds left. Haven't seen any in WoW, ever in fact.

C out

Angry Gamer said...

Larisa,

I'm so sorry that you left your guild. And I know a bit of what you are going through.

What helped me is realizing that things change... Sometimes we stay in situations that appear to be the same for a great deal of time... but in reality were changing in ways we didn't realize.

Guilds evolve over time, I blame the devs that have created a world where people are forced to make 10 man progress vs 25 man inclusion decisions.

Oh and by the way the reward mechanism leans heavily to progress... just so you make the decision in the most anti-social manner. :)

And yes I agree with you 100% it's not "just a game".

Take care

lily said...

I's just wondering. At any point, were there dancing kitties involved?

:)

I'm just KIDDING.

Nice to hear it all worked out.

Augustine said...

Larissa,

I feel your pain.

I left my guild of four years - of which I was a founding member, officer and web site admin - for similar reasons.

I only started raiding in Wrath and helped build a 10 man team.

Sure, we struggled at first. But the raid team was set up specifically for those new to raiding. It was about learning to raid, having fun and seeing the content.

The first month was hard, and then we started to gel. We got through Naxx, indeed when we got to the final boss we had in down on the 2nd try.

We rocked!

It was Ulaur next... I was thrilled.

But little did I know there was trouble brewing.

We'd picked up a few recruits that were very gear/progress focused.

As we progressed through the content, they were secretly backstabbing the "under performers" (i.e. more than half the raid team).

It all blew up and pissed off a lot of people.

After four years I felt betrayed by people I thought "friends". My performance was "ok". I was a ret pally, learning how to raid but also helped organise the raid group.

I put hours and hours into the team. I posted videos and links to guild website to help others.

Then suddenly I was told I had to "apply" for a raid role.

Eventually I quit. In the end it was the best thing I ever did. I went on to tank and heal through Heroics in Wrath.

Now I'm a tank in Cata.

I rolled Horde alts and saw content I'd never seen.

Free of the "raiding" tunnel vision the game opened up to me in new ways.

I feel in love with WoW again.

The stress and pressure of "raiding" was gone.

Oh, and those "leet raiders" who pushed the whole drama along?

They left the guild a month later to join a 25 man team. They wrecked the culture of the guild and then pished off.

Lesson learnt for me?

Raiding isn't everything.

Calli said...

I'm just glad it all had a happy ending. I didn't want to have to force Jingles to come around with some hugs, he bites when he gets too close to Mages!

zaphod6502 said...

Larisa

I am glad you have found a place back in your guild. My own experience has been similar but also different.

I was a WoW veteran from launch and actually started in a small casual family guild. Eventually the guild split between the people who wanted to progress and the people who wanted it to remain a family guild. I followed the "hardcore" element and then spent the next four years raiding "hardcore". Each guild I subsequently joined eventually imploded and split. I liken it to watching a supernova. Without the bonds of friendship these types of guilds form and disappear within an eyeblink.

To be honest my personal best performance was during WoW vanilla and I am honest enough to admit after TBC my playing skills started to deteriorate over the next 4 years. I also tired of the "hardcore" raiding guild scene and started to long for the social element of MMO gaming. Thinking back the happiest times of my WoW career were in that very first family guild which is still running on Doomhammer even now in 2011.

As for WoW itself I tired of the game which is understandable given how many years I was playing it for. Many of my friends had left the game and cancelled their accounts. I was not prepared to once again engage in the whole recruit/trial/raid process anymore.

Now I have returned to LOTRO which I have played on and off since release in 2007 and purposely looked for a social family-based kin in my timezone. I've never been happier. Playing with people who don't care about gearscore or dps figures or loot but still want to play together has been a revelation and reminded me of why I like to play MMO's.

nightgerbil said...

Glad its worked out for you Larisa, hope to read about you being there for the sindy kill :)

Perdissa said...

Hi Larissa, sad to hear your story. Some blanks in your explanation leave me unable to understand the process by which players were determined to be deadweight, as well as how your GM eventually came around to bring you back in.

I thus hesitate to say this: If your guild is still heading in the same direction, just cut your unhappiness and quit. Unless the direction of the guild changes drastically, this is an issue that is going to fester, and will come to the surface again in the future. I understand that quitting the guild would be equivalent to quitting WoW. I would do very much the same thing (quit WoW), if I were to ever quit my guild. I would also be really sad to see PPI pull down the shutters.

But this just reminds me of a relationship where the couple broke up, but got back together again because the emotions are too strong, and they think that it will all be all right again so long as they have each other. Too often, it just ends up in more tears.

Wishing you happiness and sunshine.

Larísa said...

@Perdissa: I can see your point. Right now I just want to put all this behind me and "try once more". I'm only human you know and maybe this is the one exception from the rule of relationships? But if I see things heading the direction you're suggesting, I will surely remember your words of advice. Thank you for caring so much about my whereabouts. It means a lot to me.

redcow said...

Hugs and cookies to you! Some of the comments from your guildies were really heartwarming (and others a tad frightening...>_>)

I hope that your guild continues to encourage and include you and you continue to inspire and unite them. From the tone of your blog I imagine that you're the sweet, smiling spark in the raid that keeps people from flipping their desks in tense moments.

Krytus said...

As far as I know you own an old computer. You should try to play in a fast one. Maybe ask one of your friends or family to lend it to you for a weekend and try it out? Most of the time it can be extremely painful moving out of fire when your frames per second are really low. Upgrading your computer could boost your performance by a good chunk. I'm happy that everything turned ok./Hugs

Larísa said...

@Krytus: My pc is actually fine. It's true that it used to be horrid, as well as my connection, but I upgraded it 1.5 years ago and it made a huge difference indeed. I'l playing with a high-speed broadband, so that's fine too. My keyboard is quite bad though (I was too cheap) and should probably be replaced.

But for how tempting it would be, I really don't think I can blame my rig for being a less-than-excellent player with a tad slow learning curve. I guess I'm perhaps more talented for writing than for gaming? It's not the end of the world, but it has consequences.

Larísa said...

@Spinksville: /hug indeed.

@Andrei: Awww… thanks. To be honest I doubt it. But I’ve been pondering from time to time about writing a novel influenced by my experiences in this special world… Not that I think it would be a smash hit. More for my own enjoyment. If I only could stay away from blogging, perhaps I could get the time.

@Junstinraiser: I really wasn’t sure if I’d write about it at all. I’ve always tried to a low profile in my blog when it comes to guild politics, things that can be regarded as drama etc. I’m not afraid of leaving out myself, but I don’t think I have the right to leave out others. After wresting my mind though I decided to write about it. I had hinted about my worries anyway and thought I could as well clear the air, since I was through the entire business. Still: there isn’t anything in it that is news to my guild. I’d never write anything on my blog behind people’s backs, things I couldn’t tell them straight in the eyes.

@Stubborn: Thanks. Hopefully we’ll be fine now. At least for a while… running a guild is always a bumpy road and you never know when you’ll come to your next challenge.

@Issy: So am I!

@Anonymous: Cheers!

@Redbeard: What would have been a perfect one? And thanks for the drinks!

@Cacknoob: Ouch… Fear the emperor of the bridge! Yeah. I’m glad we sorted it out.

@Rem: This sentence was probably the tipping point that brought me back to be honest.

@Doug: I’m not sure if this is the fault of the devs… I mean: stuff like this happens every day in any sport team doesn’t it? You bench a veteran, new players arrive… Is it Blizzard’s fault? Perhaps they can make some social engineering to counter the sad sides of progression, but… will it be the same game?

@Silvershaft: Thank you.

@Rhii: I hope so too. Time will show. Of course everything has an end, but I’d rather leave Adrenaline and WoW due to being done with the game than due to this kind of issues.

@Neverender: Thank you.

@Ratshag: /hug the orc

It sucked yes. More than I think anyone who hasn’t been through it can imagine. Again it depends on how much you invest of yourself into your guild. I’m afraid I perhaps invest more than I should. Sometimes being a bit more of a goblin isn’t just a bad thing. But on the other hand it’s hard to change things in your personality just like that. This is the way I am.

@Clovis: Nope I didn’t. I think the comment system is playing up a bit, Blogger does that sometimes. Have another pint!

@Eccentrica & Kialesse: Thank you and Cheers!

@Eric: I don’t know. I suppose that if there was someone who had looked forward to get rid of Larísa, they’ll vote with their feet? It would surprise me a little to be honest, but you never know of course.

Krytus said...

I wasn't aware of your new rig. Belated grats! =P

We're a 10-man casual raiding guild. We used to invite whoever was online and raid with them. However with the current difficulty we're struggling to invite our more casual members. We had to set some performance requierements to join the raids. It saddens me to left some people behind, but it only requires a couple of underperformers to turn a farm boss into a wipe fest.

I liked the WotLK model: Do some regulars with your friends and if you wanted a challenge grab your best players and try some heroics. Sadly too many people yelled at the top of their lungs that the content was too easy even when they haven't killed the LK on regular mode. I guess some people need to find a way outside of WoW for self affirmation.

Syrien said...

Dear wonderful pink-pigtailed bartender,

Thanks for sharing a very touching story. I really hope it works out well in the coming months! I understand why you left at first - it has been an inspiration to follow how you've been willing to work so hard to be able to do your part for your team, and feeling that you did not manage must have been saddening.

I would also like to give a /salute to your GM, because I fear you might have left both your guild (and us reading about your WoW adventures would quickly follow) if he had not taken this initiative. I might be misreading stuff but you seemed sad long before this conversation on Vent took place. For someone as hardworking as you, you've probably judged yourself as least as hard as anybody else. And maybe this opens the door to your fabulous guildies being able to help your learning (more than what already happened).

*HUG*

Larísa said...

@Lady Erinia:/hugs back! I’m just as happy about the ending as you.

@Jasyla: I’m sorry to be upsetting, but I did point out that there was a happy ending to it, so you wouldn’t worry too badly. Cheers!

@Kayeri: well… as I said, long-time members like me can be offered to stay in the guild at a non-raider rank after stepping down for various reasons. And they participate in currently retro-raiding and later on probably altruns on off-nights. But to me it wouldn’t feel like a good solution if I was asked to step down, to be honest. Then I’d rather have a clean cut. You know… I’m a raider at heart. It’s more like “all or nothing” I think.

@Amy: I’m sad to hear it doesn’t work for you. Actually I thought Cataclysm was better for the 10 man guilds considering that you get access to the same loot for instance. Anyway: you sound as if you need a hug too.
/hug

@Bristal: Thank you so much for your kind words. I don’t think of myself as a particularly cool human being. But I’m very touched that you think so. I don’t know what to say. More than: thank you. It comes from my heart.

@Shintar: Well I think those things come and go in the lifecycle of a guild. And our difficulties in recruiting has definitely put an added stress to the entire guild, especially the officers. I hope we’re going for one of those more easygoing periods now.

@Stabs: /hug
I don’t doubt that I’m capable of learning almost any fight they toss at me; the question is if I do it quickly enough. Some fights never quite settle themselves. Hodir never did. But most of the dances I manage nowadays. Time will show how it goes with the new ones.

@Runzwithfire: I accept shrunken heads, it looks cool enough beside my skull from Ilidan on that shelf. But I’d honestly prefer if you had your cig outdoors. If you have a pipe it’s an entirely different issue. Those are allowed over here by the fireplace.
Inconsistent? My inn. My rules!

@Sirow: I think my UI is pretty good at the moment, even if I guess it always can be tweaked…. Stumps has actually helped me with it. I don’t run poweraura, but I have some mage addons helping me with the same thing, such as combustionhelper, which is just lovely and some other addon that keeps tracks of some other cd:s.) You can have a ton of addons I’m afraid and still have a too low casting activity, which is my major issue.
But thank you for trying to help me! I appreciate the thought.

@Llyrra: It really means something to be through those moments with the same people, to share the memories, such as sweet bosskills after +100 wipes… or the moment when our muppet healer said that he didn’t see any mace on yogg after we completed the legendary weapon until he eventually found it. “There is no mace” is a standing expression in our guild. Yes. I wouldn’t want to raid with anyone else than with my guild who I have a history with.

@Silvershaft: Yes, in a sea of gearscore and goblins, there still are enclaves where comradeship still means something. Those places are rare though and I know I’m fortunate to have found such a guild.

Larísa said...

@tonyp51: Well… I guess it partly HAS to do with the way the game is designed. I’ve talked a lot about this with Stumps, who remembers the 40 man raiding fondly. In those days a guild could easily “carry” five-six players who perhaps wasn’t awesome dps-wise but contributed in other ways. Nowadays with twitchy mechanisms, complicated dances and hardmodes, it’s more crucial that each one is excellent. So you’re probably right, even if I wouldn’t go as far as to say that WoW is very badly designed. It’s just that… the new design philosophy turns out a bit harsh on players like me.

@Anonymous: as Boleuge said: no one got special treatment. No one was kicked. I can’t see what gender has to do with anything. It’s not as if I’m young and hot and my guildies are well aware of that. If people wanted me to stay, it was for other reasons. I guess they were kind of used to having me around after all this time.

@Angry Gamer: Yes… that was how I thought as I left the guild. That things changes and I wasn’t a good fit anymore. Now they got me to rethink but I still agree with you that you have to understand that a guild will change overtime. After all there are less than 10 active members left from the time when I joined…

@Lily: Dancing kitties? Punk.

@Augustine: Ouch, what a sad story. Having to apply for a raiding spot in a guild that you founded? No wonder you got tired of it and left. It sounds like kidnapping of a guild.
However – I feel that raiding is such a huge part of my gameplay that “going casual” really doesn’t sound like an attractive alternative, especially since I have so few game friends outside of the guild, if any. The process to get to know new people in the game is just too long, I can’t invest all that time and effort at this point in the game.

@Calli: Ouch. Wouldn’t want that. And I’m glad too.

@Zaphod 6502: I had a look into LOTRO last summer and it was lovely. There’s something so innocent and relaxing about running pie deliveries in the shire… And it’s a beautiful place as well. If I’ll quit wow and if I’ll decide that I want to do a bit of MMOing – just very casually, I think I’d rather go back to LOTRO than throwing myself into Rift.

@nightgerbil: Hehe, I hope so too. Chogall at 13 percent last night, it was our second visit there and a lot of new people in our team, so it didn’t feel bad at all…

@Redcow: There’s nothing frightening about stumpy feet! And as he said himself – he’s used to them!

@Krytus: well… the Wotlk model had some issues too tbh. Running ToC four times a week, as some did, wasn’t exactly what I’d call healthy. I can see the point of the shared lockouts and other changes they’ve done. But then again: I don’t ask for casual raiding in a cosy 10 man group. Even if I too can appreciate small raiding for what it is, I’m aiming for 25 man progression raiding, with the discipline that comes with it. I enjoy it that way because I can focus better on what I’m doing than in a chatty, social environment. The game is demanding enough as it is, and it certainly doesn’t get easier if my attention is split to a myriad of things.

@Syrien: Oh yes, I’m definitely my worst judge and critic myself. This gnome can be very harsh to be honest even if she might not look like it.
/hug

SpiritusRex said...

Hellooooo? Helloooo? Noticing an Inn that looks like Deathwing himself has run through it, Spiritus enters the Inn.

Surveying the scene...what in Elune's name is that Orc doing sleeping naked on that table with all those wisps dancing about him - BEAST!

You know, Innkeeper, you're looking like you just survived a 10-day war with yourself. Haven't I told you on more than one occassion that you MUST be careful when wielding the arcane energies? (hint: I hear fire mages are having a bit easier time with it nowadays). In any event, even though your mascara shows signs of tears, I'll do well to ignore them as I can see a little bit of sparkle returning to your eyes.
I'll say it again, since you apparently forgot when I said it to you the first time - This above all: To thine ownself be true. Whatever you decide or wherever you go, you'll always have the memories of good times well spent.

Now, go get some sleep while I help to clean up the Inn - this may take a while. Although, truth be told, there is no way in Blackfathom Deeps I am moving that Orc!

Townes said...

My problem is, I’m 57. My reflexes aren’t what they were when I was 41. To me, the 41-year-olds act like they have the reaction times of Charlie Sheen on crack, and yeah, the kids are doing stuff that has been inconceivable to me since the first time my son obliterated me on his Playstation back in my 40s. I can do the fights, and I'm not always the weakest link. I have a lot of healing experience, and if I pick a class like mage or hunter, I can get into an acceptable range of dps. But I'm never in the crowd of people you want in that week-long 5-man achievement run, and I'm in the 10-mans because there don't happen to be enough people in my guild that they don't need me.

I keep thinking of starting a guild called that only accepts people only 50, like AARP, to raid. But that wouldn't send a lot of spam mail about buying insurance. I'm thinking more of retiring from raiding, though, and mostly have.

Perdissa said...

@Larissa,

I'm glad to see you're optimistic. I sincerely hope this works out for you. :)

Mhorgrim said...

Well, after the ensueing run of commentary I suppose what I have to say is nothing new, but here goes:

First and foremost, the ending was on a happy note, and for all parties concerned, that's commendable on every level. This isn't alway the case with any sort of guild, raiding or not.

It's interesting the social aspects of what goes on between friends and what WoW often becomes, an eSport. Hey, more power either way, Raiding does take a huge amount of skill, determination and research.

Those getting on a top end guild need to keep the edge razor sharp and can't let friendships get in the way of progression if that's the guild mission statement.
Thankfully, the Guild Leader seems to take a very kind attitude in the end, remembering the friendship ties. I don't think though anyone in particular should be flamed, it ended well and that's the bottom line.
just a thought.

lily said...

HEY! No need for name calling! :)

Spitt said...

If you ever do decide to leave, we got a place for you in our guild, over in Rift.

Masith said...

I know I’m a bit late to this discussion but I just wanted to voice my support for your officers after some of the vitriol I have seen posted about them here.

In discussions like this there often seem to be a lot of comments which follow the theme “WoW should be fun and not a job”.

I am sure that all the players in Adrenaline would completely agree with this statement. However what many of the players making this statement fail to realise is that they don’t have a monopoly on what is fun.

For me and I suspect many players in adrenaline fun is striving to kill hard bosses with a team of players of a similar skill to themselves, fun is not wiping endlessly on content they find easy because half the raid either aren’t as skilled as them or aren’t willing to put in the effort to become skilled.
As a leader in a guild of this type of player it is one of the hardest things to have to do to tell a player who is a friend that they need to improve their performance or they may have to be retired from raiding but it has to be done or you risk losing 10 good friends from the guild who are tired of wiping on stuff they find easy.

Yojamba said...

When a wow related issue gives you sleepless nights, it shows commitment (and some love), to say the least. If I was raiding I would rather have a person like that with me then someone that just wants the loot.
Glad things turned out ok in the end

Elise said...

Hello Larisa,

I haven't read your blog before, but I will definately do it from now.

Is it too much to write that I got a tear in my eye while reading it and felt really happy at the end? Cause I sure did.

All the best wishes for happy guild future! yay!