I had planned to write a rather long and thoughtful post. It’s almost finished, so you’ll see it soon, don’t worry. But something else came in my way that I just have to get out of my system.
I don’t know how it happened, but somehow I seem to have lived in a bubble, a dream world, where I believed that the WoW community was an astounding bunch of people, hosting smart, creative, differently thinking men and women, boys and girls, of all ages, from all over the world.
This environment, especially the blogosphere of course, has always inspired me. It’s kind of silly, but whenever I read for instance Tamarind and his academically influenced walls-of-text I always feel a little bit smarter myself. It’s an illusion, but in someway I can’t help thinking his smartness is sticky, that some of it will influence me when I read, think and react to his blogposts.
Or take Tim Howgego, the creator of El’s Extreme Anglin’, but also the man behind some less know, but yet brilliant essays on his personal blog. This guy is what I would call SMART, and as far as you can come from the old cliché about the fat, stupid no-lifer living in his mothers basement.
It’s a community that I’ve always been proud to be a member of and interact with.
The Community team picture
I don’t know how it happened, but somehow I seem to have lived in a bubble, a dream world, where I believed that the WoW community was an astounding bunch of people, hosting smart, creative, differently thinking men and women, boys and girls, of all ages, from all over the world.
This environment, especially the blogosphere of course, has always inspired me. It’s kind of silly, but whenever I read for instance Tamarind and his academically influenced walls-of-text I always feel a little bit smarter myself. It’s an illusion, but in someway I can’t help thinking his smartness is sticky, that some of it will influence me when I read, think and react to his blogposts.
Or take Tim Howgego, the creator of El’s Extreme Anglin’, but also the man behind some less know, but yet brilliant essays on his personal blog. This guy is what I would call SMART, and as far as you can come from the old cliché about the fat, stupid no-lifer living in his mothers basement.
It’s a community that I’ve always been proud to be a member of and interact with.
The Community team picture
But today something came in my way that made me cringe. I started to see things as they are in reality rather than in my fantasy. There may be small enclaves of intelligent people, like Tam and Tim, but the community on the whole is still just a Boys Club.
What made my pink coloured glasses fall off was the picture that the Blizzard Community team suddenly, out of the blue, posted in a forum thread.
There’s nothing wrong about posting the photo, quite the opposite. From a PR perspective I approve - this is a way to give this mega sized and rather anonymous cooperation a few more faces than GC. Nothing bad about him, but the creation of WoW isn't a one-man show. We still don’t know who’s who, but the picture shows a bunch of pretty young, casually dressed, smiling people, who seems to be happy with what they’re doing and look pretty much as I suppose that my guildies look.
What makes me annoyed isn’t the picture, but the community reaction to it. Have you seen it? On the official forums there are already 12 pages of comments and more incoming. At the MMO Champion, it’s the same. Commenters aren’t discussing the latest incoming changes to classes anymore. It’s all about The Picture. Or rather: it’s all about ONE person in the picture: the “hot” red haired chick in the middle, Nethaera (edit: or possibly some one else, according to one of the commenters to this post).
Drooling 14 year olds
What made my pink coloured glasses fall off was the picture that the Blizzard Community team suddenly, out of the blue, posted in a forum thread.
There’s nothing wrong about posting the photo, quite the opposite. From a PR perspective I approve - this is a way to give this mega sized and rather anonymous cooperation a few more faces than GC. Nothing bad about him, but the creation of WoW isn't a one-man show. We still don’t know who’s who, but the picture shows a bunch of pretty young, casually dressed, smiling people, who seems to be happy with what they’re doing and look pretty much as I suppose that my guildies look.
What makes me annoyed isn’t the picture, but the community reaction to it. Have you seen it? On the official forums there are already 12 pages of comments and more incoming. At the MMO Champion, it’s the same. Commenters aren’t discussing the latest incoming changes to classes anymore. It’s all about The Picture. Or rather: it’s all about ONE person in the picture: the “hot” red haired chick in the middle, Nethaera (edit: or possibly some one else, according to one of the commenters to this post).
Drooling 14 year olds
Drooling 14 year old boys, who are about to explode from a hormone overdose any minute. They’re all over the place. Is this the WoW fan community showing its real face? I’ve always found non-girls-allowing guilds quite silly or even repugnant. But suddenly I can see the need. Those males aren’t humans. They’re animals.
It’s a Boys Club. And I look at myself into the mirror and ask: what am i doing here?
It’s a Boys Club. And I look at myself into the mirror and ask: what am i doing here?
51 comments:
I didn't read all the comments on that thread, but the first few on page one were largely 'we love you guys, give us plushies'. I guess it got worse later on.
You do have to remember that, just as you can't judge the entire WoW community by the bloggers, you also can't judge it by the folks who post on the O-Boards. It's an entirely different group of people, a group that I suspect plays a different version of WoW than we do, judging by how much they usually seem to hate it.
It's a reaction I sometimes share, but on the whole, I think the wow community is big enough that we have room for all types...
Since you mentioned Tam, I'll mention him again. He has been reflecting lately that just because you personally don't like someone (or think they're insensitive/badly behaved/jerks) doesn't mean that there's not room for them in your guild but that there's also nothing wrong with not wanting to associate directly with them either! If his guild is big enough for both, the whole community must be!
It's disheartening when a lot of the type of people I personally choose not to associate with congregating in one place and being very vocal, especially because I think it has a tendency to tar us all with the same brush in the public opinion, but there are still lots of other places to go as refuge from them. Theres room for you too and your voice helps counter theirs.
My advice is this: if you're going to view the enclave of intelligent, informed bloggers as a small enclave, then look at these commenters as a minority as well. The community as a whole isn't as bad as you're fearing.
Yeah, you're way outnumbered by guys playing this game. And yeah, although I haven't seen the photo the average guy is going to take notice of a pretty girl. But the average guy is also going to leave it at that. The community has its crude loudmouths, but they're like pufferfish--not as big as they look.
What you're doing here is bringing insightful, witty and thoughtful comments to a large community of intelligent people - men and women. The neanderthals that look at a present and only see the wrapping and not the gift inside are the same asshats that will play with the cardboard box and not the present.
Is a case of non-random samplifications. Drool boys leave (possibly multiple) drool comments. Non-drool boys see nuthin' ta contribute to the discussion, so they say nuthins. Result is a lotta drool. Don't mean the community is full of drool boys.
Even those drool boys (I love that phrase :) ) see that the CM/ dev team of the game they're playing has some pretty girls in it as well as pretty boys.
On some level, that's a useful message.
I never got the feeling that Blizzard had a lot of female devs, at least not compared to some other companies. It's not that I think you need to have quotas or that guys can't do the job just as well, but it doesn't have to be that way any more.
And she is not that hot at all which just makes it worse. Cute and good looking - sure - every smart woman is like that. But hotness requires much more.
14 yo need more exercise, sunshine and cold showers. it helped me when I was that age.
What are you doing in wow - hope playing a game you enjoy with people you like.
I think we males stay forever drooling boys. But after 16 we change the things we drool about - cars, gadgets, computers, extreme sports, crazy hobbies.
Word spreads fast these days; what we see here is a product of technological innovation in the hands of the small-minded. Teenage angst can't be stopped, especially when coupled with twitter, facebook and texting.
But I wouldn't worry too much. I don't think that those immature respones are a fair representation of the wow community as a whole, it simply points out something we already knew, that with enough players you are statistically bound to have a group of idiots who will never act in a rational or mature manner.
I just loook away. I choose this community, and will let the fools be fools. One thing is certain, here at the Inn there is no Boys Club, and for that I'm grateful.
I'm ashamed of my gender for that one.
But I do think "14 year old boys" are the primary forum posters, but not the primary audience for the game. At least a third of the audience is genuinely female. And I encounter a LOT of adults playing this game. And look at the blogging community. There's a lot of good here...even though I was VERY disappointed when Matticus twittered the exact same sentiment about "the girl in the middle is hot!"
PS: Guys, stop aiming out of your league.
The forums are like trade chat. How often do you read trade chat and say to yourself "I'm not going to get involved in that"? Same with everyone else, except for the morons in trade chat. It's a selection bias.
Sorry to be super picky, particularly since this takes away nothing from the point of your frustration, but Nethaera is actually the woman to left if the so-called "hot, red-haired chick". Nethaera is the rather composed, intelligent looking one in the red-rimmed glasses :)
I think they deleted the really bad comments on the official forums. I scrolled through the thread and didn't see anything that bothered me. Besides, I'm guilty of admiring some of the men in the picture.
I kind of like that people find "the red haired girl" attractive. Unlike scantily clad professional models, she looks like a real person. She's smiling, she's dressed normally, she's not dolled up to look like a barbie doll. Maybe they could word their admiration a little better, but it's nice to see guys finding a real looking girl attractive.
You've fallen into the trap that Blizzard itself sometimes falls into. You assumed that the forums are even a remotely representative of the community.
The forums are choke-full of people complaining how every class is both in need of a nerf and a buff at the same time. The professions/AH/questing/dungeons/pets have ruined WoW.
The best thing you can do? Close tab and read something else.
@Jeffo: well, I guess I'm exaggerating a little. Not every single comment is like that. But the majority are just focusing on the hot red chick.
And yeah... probably I should just stay away from the forums not to see tha crap. This one caught my attention through MMO-champion though, which normally has pretty high class.
@Rhii: yeah, we're co-existing. But I can't help feeling that Tam, Tim, you and I are in a tiny, tiny minority.
@Isa: it's hard to say how representative it is, you're right about that. But I can't help getting annoyed. I guess it also reminds me of some of the less intelligent chat in /general and /trade.
@Anonymous: thanks for your support. Yeah, I guess I just need to stick out and keep the neanderthals out of the inn. This is a refugee for thinking people.
@Ratshag: hm... makes sense I guess. Maybe I'm listening too much at my reptile brain when I react to this kind of crap.
@Spinks: it definitely is a step forward having a couple of girls in the pic. I mean compared to the 5-year-anniversary interviews, featuring ZERO females, which I thought was astounding and not good for Blizzard's image. Every little step heads forward...
@Daniel: well.. tbh grown-up-girls can also drool over gadgets and crazy hobbies, belive it or not. I'm a proud female geek and I'm not alone!
@Gronthe: yeah, look away is probably the best. Sticking to my blog roll, consisting of intelligent, mannered writers, and not even bothering to lurking at other forums.
@Hatch: well said! And your commenting post was just brilliant. You're much better at putting this anger into words than I am. And more trustworthy being a guy yourself. Thanks for the support!
@Kobeathris: yeah, as Ratshag also pointed out, the selection is biased. I'm probably a bit unfair, judging the whole community. Still it's annoying when it invades the biggest, most commented forums. Not that many players read for instance the blog of Hatch.
@Anonymous: oh! You happen to know the name of the red haired as well? Could sort it out in the post and correct it, but then I need the full information. I just read the comments a bit carelessly and got the impression it was N.
@Ophelie: It's not like they're writing down their porn dreams about her, but the whole concept of objectifying her in a way they don't objectify any other Blizzard employee is annoying. Why can't she just be allowed to be one of the co-workers, respected for her job and knowledge, not just admired for her looks?
No one is commenting on the appearance of GC or any other game developper that way.
@Ron: it's not just the official forums, it's the MMO champion as well. Yeah, I can turn my eyes to something else. But I can't see that there's anything wrong in speaking up about it, pointing out that a female employee at Blizzard deserves to be treated just like her male collegues are.
Dear Larisa,
What you're here doing is helping make it less of a Boys Club :)
If you too lose faith, what hope remains for the rest of us girls? ;0
-Janice
Forums. Much like trade chat and general channels. I use them when I have the need. Rest of the time they're on ignore.
Blogs. I visit because I want to visit. I want to read them, not wade through the reams of "lolz" and innane comments. It's not a club. Your Inn makes me feel at home.
Oh, and while we're on the subject of women players, there's an article (link below) in the Times Online regarding women in WoW. It has some seriously interesting stats - but I find it almost as offputting as the hotchicks comments, because it swings so completely the other way and you have to chew through what people think we want to read first...
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article7039871.ece
Sorry for my race but I would say 90% of guys are droolbots and they do not have to be fourteen. The fantasy of nerd chicks is hot. What can I say. 5% of the guys who say they agree with you just want to be nice to the cute pink pigtail chick. The other 5% of men are gay.
It is a fact of life. The majority of all men and not just in Warcraft are very visual and somewhat crude and neanderthal. Some keep it to themselves. Forum's are not so much about keeping things to yourselves. The real thoughts come out in the anonymity of the forum.
There is a reason that Blizzard makes all their Night Elves skinny and sexy and billions of people enjoy that. Not to mention all the other forms of entertainment and advertising geared towards men.
Well .... you know what. Beautiful women will always be treated differently. Its a fact of life. No matter how professional, smart and stunningly competent you are, our first thought will be "she is so hot". It is both a bless and a curse but it is fact and is immutable. But this is a topic for a whole guest post if you are interested.
As a female gamer, as well as a woman with a graduate degree in Computer Science, I like to think that I've grown a shell about this sort of thing but - sigh. It hurts, sometimes.
Let's think of it this way - those idiot drool boys are helping to pay for the world we love! My $15 a month won't do it, so I need the little idiots to keep playing. I'm *using* them, in a way. Just like I used to put up with their idiocy in grad school, knowing that their fees were helping pay for my scholarships.
Just filing it under the list of reasons my baby daughter won't be allowed to date til she's 30...
The problem is the drool boys cannot think of any adjective to describe an attractive woman other than 'hot'.
Stunning? Gorgeous? Ravishing? Get a Thesaurus, boys. Real women love a man with a big vocabulary.
As for me, ever since I heard an interview with Paris Hilton where she breathily described herself as 'hot' I personally think that's one the worst compliments you could ever pay a woman.
There are other gals out there, we're all just few and far between.
I can't even access the pic - bandwidth exceeded.
The community may have a lot of drool-boys, but not only are there some great guys in it, there are a bunch of lovely, smart, talented women in it as well and we're all here to support each other!
My first thought when seeing this picture was "Wow. Only three women in the entire group."
My second thought was (in regards to the redhead in question) "How does she not get eaten alive at that job?"
Forum people make me want to cry.
At the same time, the women *are* out front. PR stunt?
Not that such excuses the neanderthals. Nothing excuses them. I just ignore them.
But yes, games are pretty much a boy thing. It's changing ever so slowly, but even WoW, bastion of civility and prudence that it is, isn't going to change the industry in a few short years.
I really should write up that XYXX article I keep meaning to do on women in the industry...
I've been following your blog for a while, and I just wanted to let you know from a lurking fan that the WoW community would be a lot worse off without you and those like you.
Every time the offensive minority drives off a smart, funny, insightful person - male OR female - the game gets a little poorer for the rest of us, and soon we'll all be asking why we're playing this game.
It's never as simple as just ignoring them (believe me, I know), but at the very least you and the others you've mentioned can provide some solace for each other, and the rest of us can take solace in your observations and insights.
The blogging community, at least for me, is a little piece of sanity in a game that frequently drives me insane. I retreat to it when the PuGs, raids, and 14-year-old forum goers have me at the end of my rope. You're not alone, in either your frustration or your community - there ARE others like you out there, they're just not as obnoxious as that offensive-minority. :D
Can't see the picture, but I think Ratters hit the nail on the head (as usual). :-)
Interesting fact from the Times article that now I am tree posted. "For WoW, the male/female ratio is fairly balanced, with 428,621 women between 25 and 54 playing in December 2008 versus 675,713 men in the same age group."
I actually never thought it was that close to equal - so that is very cool! :-)
What are you doing here? You're playing a game! Have fun or GTFO!
*smiles*
The only way to end the boys club is to join it.
As others have said, you're looking at a minority population. A self-selection minority. How many people are going to look at the picture say "oh, they look like nice people" and post that? Or how many are going to post to say "that's objectifying" when people make 12 pages of drool? They end up just getting caught up in the Internet Knight flame war of one side being immature and the other side being patronizing.
They are not just WoW players. They are people in the real world. You can just as well can ask: "what am I doing here?"
I have my answer: to improve the playerbase/mankind by destroying these M&S
Second from the left is Nethaera - who is probably my favorite Blizz employee. I'm not sure who the lady to her right is.
Thank you for making this post. It wasn't just the forums making commentary. I read it in blogs and on twitter, and it really irritated me.
There aren't a whole lot of pictures on my site, but even though it's an old post, the picture that gets downloaded from my site the most is the picture of Nethaera... which leaves me wondering... why? There are a helluva lot more downloads of her picture than there are people going through to the posts from her that I linked. And that kinda frustrates me.
Never read said thread, but she was first one I noticed on the picture.
I am sorry, but comparing men to animals? I am hurt. Yes, I pay attention to attractive women. I don't "drool" at them, don't make comments. I don't judge people on their gender or looks but I find company of pretty women pleasurable, even if I don't plan to hit on them.
So, basically You think I am allowed to admire attractive females as long as I don't say anything about it, or I should suppress my instincts? Because latter, won't happen. At best I can lie about it.
Walgierz - if you read the thread, you may understand why there was such a reaction to it. People weren't keeping their opinions to themselves, there was drool, there were comments. There were raging hormones.
And to be honest, there was also a number of female comments about some of the men. Which I also found equally disconcerting.
If you think this is bad, take a short peek at the comments beneath any of the Tankspot video's from Aliena on youtube, or perhaps you shouldn't. Now it might be so that the content of those video's is mediocre at best, at least in my opinion, but I doubt if that's the reason why hardly any of the comments are on topic.
It also made me wonder too what kind of people I'm playing with, but I do realize it's a loud minority that does this. Or at least I hope so.
I knew that would happen as soon as i saw the picture. I garuntee you blizzard did as well (including the woman herself).
I'm a guy, and i admit i noticed. But i didn't go posting all over the forums about it. Guys (and i assume girls too) are always going to notice someone attractive.
Maybe it's because i'm used to playing around female gamers (our guild has fluctuated from ~8 in pre BC to no less than about 4 nowadays.) i won't say i don't notice, but i don't flip out.
The people who do are just as much a minority as bloggers in general, tbh ;p. Imagine if everyone posted ~5+ stupid messages a day on those forums. or even a majority. It would be a LOT more crap to sift through.
I'm actually more suprised by your reaction than theirs :)
Video game + Internet + males. What does one expect? :)
Trust me Larisa, my other passion is sports and there is absolutely no reason to read comments on internet articles and postings anywhere outside your blogosphere. People don't both actually reading articles and they speak before they think, which is a huge sign of immaturity. But they will never listen to reason because it's the internet and we're all anonymous. so it's not worth caring about.
Look at it this way: there are 12 million subscribers playing this game. Therefore, there will be a lot of tardmonkeys as well as a lot of good people. It's not a boys club...it's a slice of society at large, including those future frat boys.
@Janice Yeah, I guess everyone in the community who isn't a drooling boy makes a bit of a difference.
@Now I am tree: yeah, it had some points, that article, still it bugs me that they feel compelled to include a love story. Why is it so hard to portray something as simple as a gamer who happens to be a girl?
@SirFWALGMan: hm... the true human nature revealing itself? I guess I just prefer it when people keep it to themselves a bit more, at least pretending to be civilized.
@Daniel: I'm always open for guest posts, as long as they're somehow connected to WoW and the ideas in them aren't completely opposed to my own opinions. So if you want to give it a try, go ahead and I'll have a look at it. No promises though.
@Analogue: That's a good way to look at it actually. A girl power perspective. Sometimes I just wish I didn't need to have that shield up all the time, that it shouldn't be necessary.
@Cap'n John: yeah, it's sad isn't it? If you want to capture the attention of a woman you'd better come up with something better than "hot". Don't they read Shakespeare's sonnets at school these days?
Wordsworth? Byron? Hm...
@CreepTheProphet: and they don't work at Blizzard apparently. The proportions in the staff is quite amazing considering how many female gamers there are these days.
@Daergel: yeah it seems a bit broken. If you go through the forum post I think the link works better though.
@Angelva: cheers for that!
@Anjin: yeah. It seems as if there are a bit more girls in the EU community team. They said that they might come up with a picture in one of the comments. Remains to see if it happens. And if they do it the same way as they did in US, putting the girls exactly in the middle of the photo. That wasn't a coincidence.
@Tesh: Go ahead and do it! You who actually know something about the topic, not just bitching from a distance like I do.
@Protflashes: Thanks for your appreciation! Yeah, maybe that's how we should regard bloggers such as Tim, Tam and the other intelligent writers out there. We're all some sort of sanity wells that you can run to when you've lost so many sanity points that you're about to rage quit the game.
@Tufva: I can't help wondering how they got that figure. Can it be sometimes that the mother in the family is paying for and has the name on the subscription? Just a thought. Still - yeah, we're definitely not that rare anymore.
@Klepsacovic: hm... You're suggesting I'm patronizing? Shouldn't it rather be matronizing? You think I can put it to an end if I join the boy's club? How do I do that?
@Gevlon: wow. I must say that I'm kind of impressed with your idealism and your mission to improve mankind, destroying M&S. I wish I had such a clear idea about the direction of my gaming and my life. The funny thing about life is that the older you get, the less do you know about it somehow. At least that's how it is for me.
@Miss Medicina: ah, thank's for the clarification. You're probably the one in the blogosphere who knows most about the blue posters. I'm glad you liked the post. You know, being annoyed in good company somehow makes you a bit less annoyed.
@Walgierz: There isn't any law against sharing your opinions about the looks of other people as far as I know of. So I guess you're "allowed" to admire them. However: if you want to earn my respect you could keep those judgements to yourself, rather than discussing them in third person like you would discuss the looks of a car model. I honestly don't understand the need for making reviews of the looks of others. Giving a compliment to someone directly is a different matter.
@Daxlim: oh, I guess I'd better not look. And yeah, it makes you wonder.
@Tyra: yeah, I have a gnawing suspicion that Blizzard put her in the on purpose. It makes me kind of sad. Although I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
@We Fly Spitfires: I might not have reacted quite as hard as the post implies. You know rhetoric... However I DO think it's a good thing that I still react. If we never ever react at this kind of crap, will there ever be a change? I try to make people think. Maybe some of those drooling types by accident will stumble upon my blog. Maybe I can have planted a seed that slowly will infiltrate their thoughts. You never know.
@Fitz: Yeah, maybe I should stick to my blogroll and not bother looking at that kind of crap. The reason I did it was that it was on Tankspot. But the droolers apparently are at Tankspot as well. The sad truth.
It is fairly disgusting that people are so sex-addicted, particularly tweens. Do they really have nothing better to do? It really does make me a bit ashamed of my gender.
I think we have to keep things in perspective. The gaming community in WoW, with more than 10 million players, has more people than my country.
With such a large player base, there is bound to be a huge amount of diversity. Imagine that people from every demographic group are represented, and you won't harbor illusions that everyone in-game is a nice person.
Having said that, you tend to gravitate towards like-minded people in the game. Personally, my wife and I are in a guild with mostly working professionals and married couples, so we sometimes think the whole community is like that. Once in a while, though, we see things like that, that brings us back to reality. :)
As a female who has worked in the video game industry, I can confirm the crazy gender imbalance. We were hopelessly outnumbered, and more importantly: Almost all the girls in my company were in support roles - production assistants, HR, receptionist etc. (Some of them were cute, I daresay. There was always one or two running the stalls when the company attended a con) There were very very few women artists, and (as far as I can remember) none at all in programming.
If the game playing community is truly becoming more balanced, then I hope to see it filter into the game creators soon! If it wasn't so rare then it wouldn't create such comment.
Remember: Every great man was once a 14-year-old. Not all of us are drooling slobs.
Honestly, the amount of sexism directed at men here is worse than anything I read in the forum thread.
If someone took the time to point me out in a picture and compliment me in my physical appearance I'd be flattered, I don't see the need to become enraged by it, especially since the woman in question has made no comment about it.
Why do you feel you need to express outrage, trying to protect someone who doesn't seem to be bothered by it herself?
Nowhere in that thread does anyone imply that she does a bad job, is incompetent or "just" hot.
I think we'd all be better of if people didn't take these things so seriously, especially considering that your assessment of those "14 year olds" is only partially correct: we're all animals.
Bliz is posting a picture with a good looking girl in front-center. If less than half of the comments was about this girl It would be a sign of serious trouble.
Larisa, I strongly ask you, to polish your pinky glasses and set them back up on your nose.
Why are you writing a blog about a game, when you could also share your opinion in the forums?
Why are you reading smart peoples blogs, when you could also read the forums?
Why are you in a guild with other smart people?
We always search for our own kind and we use to create echo chambers. Thus, visit the places, were people share our values and opinions.
So, instinctively you separate yourself from them - for a good reason.
In this case you crossed the border and discovered, that the world you were always claiming to be an extreme does indeed exist, and you are living on the sunny island.
You painted a good picture how to imagine a nerd, and the point is, that we do not want to be like that. So we surround ourselves with people who are not like that.
The problem is, that only the extreme get's attention. So, because "we" move out of the public attention, the extreme is only to be recognized by the public.
Would you have reacted to that post? Obviously not, since you consider it nice to have a face behind now, but nothing more.
Assuming a neutral observer would read that forum post, he would in fact have no clue that a normal majority would exist.
Sweden has good social insurance network, so I can imagine, that the public image of a WoW Player is not different from here in Germany.
Because of that, the "normal" majority keeps calm and everyone assumes the "extreme" to be normal.
So keep your glasses, your world is fine, do not let the screaming crowd tell you any different, listen to the subtle tones instead.
However I do have a story to cheer you up a bit.
http://www.rollenspielsucht.de/ (Yes it's German, but as Swedish you get the message)is the biggest movement in Germany against RPGs, accusing RPGs to cause addiction.
Our community meeting last year took place in Munich. Roughly 20 of us visited the downtown and the famous town hall. In front of said hall, was a sort of information stand of that Anti-RPG group. Showing a dress-man doll chained to a computer, with Pizza-boxes and Coke on his desk.
Since the scenery was quiet amusing, we decided to take a group picture in front of that Anti-RPG stand.
When the hosts recognised us, we explained to them, that we are indeed a member of a RPG Community.
At this point I must say, that at least I think, that we are a quiet charming and smart community.
Starting in the end twentieth, some even have their own children, and through all branches from pilot over public officer to workmen at Airbus.
One should think, that they would be glad to see, that normal people of their age, show that RPGs do not lead to addiction.
The contrary was the case, they started persuading us, to stop gaming, or we would ruin or lives.
Actually, one of them even brought Winnenden into play, were at that year a boy run amok and killed 15 Persons.
It does not matter how you proof them, that normal does exist, they will not believe it.
Therefore I ask you, to do ourselves a favor and at least believe in all of us.
Heh, thanks for the kind words. I'm currently not feeling very clever :P
To be honest, I kind of looked at that picture of shiny happy people and thought to myself "oh, they look like a nice team of people" - so perhaps it's not what sort of people this picture brings out of the woodwork so much as what sort of people feel inclined to comment on it.
After all, the majority of us (I believe?) think "how nice, faces" which is barely worth the saying, whereas the sort of people who do feel obliged to make a comment on the picture are *also* the kind of people who might to say something like "zomg!girl!".
In short: I don't think it's that the WoW community is suffused with droolers so much as the sort of people who might comment thus on a photo have a higher chance of being droolers...
i don't think comments on the forums or other wow sites show the community. i think they show the portion of the community that lack the check valve between thought and then actually logging in and typing it out.
the relationships i've made in this game have all had one factor that remains constant. me.
so they are, and are with people, on my terms. i'm sure there's a british metric kiloton of idiot drooling 14 year olds on my server - they just don't exist to me.
OK, I've rambled a bit about this at my place finally. It's been stewing for a while.
Just food for thought, I guess...
XYXX
Always a few days late with the comments. Hopefully they are not closed. Face it - you and I are old. We are dinosaurs. Hair combed, faces washed, shoes polished... that is what our parents taught us. And though we have done our best to pass it along to our children (I'm a grandmother), the younger generation isn't getting it. I work at a college, and we had the local school system use our campus to administer tests for 3 days. Loud, noisey, graffiti written in the hallways and restrooms, everyone congregating in the hallways blocking the walking. I asked a fellow employee and they just said "Ashley, you are just old. These younger folks don't respect anyone or anyplace.". So, my friend, the same with the World of Warcraft - young males on the other end of that computer pretending to be 21, making comments, shocking and rude to us, but they don't know better and don't care.
addendum-
my thoughts have left my head and I end my comment on this. When I can think of it again, I will re-write here. Thanks, Larísa.
-Siggy
Haha alright, right now I'm happy that the youngest boy in our raid groups was 14 years old - a very talented rougue I have to admit. But it's kind of strange when a top damage dealer has "to go to bed at 11pm". Makes you wonder.... ;)
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